On Marketing to a New Demographic with Darly Nava – Ep. 185


Marketing is a crucial aspect of taking a business to the next level. The more a company promotes its products and services, shares on social media, studies who the ideal client is, and starts to shape the brand around the data, the more it has a chance to succeed and stay in the market for a long time. However, marketing strategies depend on several factors, including where you try to sell and grow.

In this episode of Next Level Human Podcast, Dr. Jade welcomes Darly Nava. Darly is the owner of Darly’s MX, a Mexico-based company that specializes in healthy and fit donuts. Darly shares all about her perspective on the differences between marketing in Mexico and marketing in the U.S. The demographic aspect of marketing strategies plays a huge role in how the brand is perceived by people, how the product is accepted by the clientele, and how the sales numbers perform every month.

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Related Links

Blue Ocean Strategy by W. Chan Kim and Renee Mauborgne

Connect with Darly

Instagram: @darlys.mx

Connect with Dr. Jade Teta

Website: www.jadeteta.com

Instagram: @jadeteta



Next Level Human

Episode 185- On Marketing to a new Demographic

Host: Dr. Jade Teta

Guest: Darly Nava

Podcast Intro: [00:14] welcome to the Next Level Human Podcast. As a human, you have a job to do. In fact, you have four jobs; to earn and manage money, to attain and maintain health and fitness, to build and sustain personal relationships, to find meaning and make a difference. None of these jobs are taught in school and that is what this podcast is designed to do. To educate us all on living our most fulfilled lives through the mastery of these four jobs. I'm your host, Dr. Jade Teta and I believe we are here living this life for three reasons and three reasons only; to learn, to teach and to love. In this podcast, I will be learning, teaching, and loving right along with you. I'm grateful to have your company; here is to our next level.

And let's get to the show. Alright, everybody, welcome to today's show today actually is a special show because I have a friend of mine, a local here to Asheville. And you know what, darling? I'm realizing I don't know your last name, actually, what is your name? So Darly Hernandez. And this is sort of what you're gonna get with the conversation with me and Darly today is two friends, both people who are sort of experts in the health and fitness industry. But one coming at this from Darly is from Mexico built her first business in Mexico. And we were like, Hey, let's get on and have a discussion about what's different about marketing in the United States. And so we're both gonna learn some things. And hopefully, you'll learn some things from the discussion. And so one of the reasons that we decided to do this as Darla is like, I'd love to just sit and talk about business and the differences perhaps in Mexico, because, and I'll let her explain it here in a minute when we start getting into it. So this really is just two friends talking. And you all are able to sort of jump in, and I'm going to try to help Darly you know, sort of decipher some of what goes on in American marketing. And hopefully, we'll learn some things from her, because she's got a pretty successful business in Mexico and trying to bring it here to the United States. And you'll learn a little bit about that. But let's just get into a Darly. So like one of the things that you were interested in is this idea of okay, well, how do Americans think how are they different? You know, you certainly notice the differences. So why don't you just set us up and kind of tell us sort of what your thoughts have been and then what your major you know, sort of questions are

Darly  9:14 

Yeah, so one of the things that I noticed first is when I got my samples so we've been going for a long time trying to trial after trial getting to a good formula, you know, a good formula that's a low cost and easy to manufacture in big quantities and then you know, being able to expand with this back home, and I got some samples from those formulas and you know, I baked them in my house in brought you some samples and I gave other people samples and the first things that like came up were what, what are the main ingredients? Are these gluten free or Are these dairy free? And? Yeah, I don't I don't have a answer for that, like, that I'm proud of, you know, like, if a medium Mexican, were, you know, was wondering, are these locale? Yes, they are, you know, these are for you. And so I guess I created my formula around how Mexicans consume and how Mexicans are educated around the word health, healthy, you know, even like the oil part, or like the fat part, I've perceived here that it's not, it's not the devil, you know, and back home, my business partner and I were discussing, you know, what type of fat we can use for it to be the texture, especially for the texture. So I was like, What about butter? You know, like, because I see that here, it's, it's not bad, you know? And she's like, No, we cannot use that, we need to use coconut oil. Because coconut oil resonates with Mexicans, you know, like healthy. If it's coconut oil, then I am not getting fat, I am not putting stuff in my body that will make me you know, gain weight or get unhealthy. And there's a lot of like, discussions around that, you know, what type of oil it's better, what type of fat blah, blah, blah. But we don't get into, like, we don't deepen into that conversation as you guys like, here. It's it's a thing talking about that. And just the my partner, he follows this carnivore diet and has so many arguments around that. So as you know, the vegans and vegetarians pescatarians and all these type of lifestyles and diets. So my question here is like, how am I going to be able to offer a product that can be a yes, for all of these, you know, because vegans can be fitness to pescatarians can be fitness to like, everybody can be but it's the diet that I get into too late, then offer this product, you know what I'm saying?

Jade  12:29 

Yeah, so let me just feed back and also get everyone a little caught up. So I'm just gonna feed back what I think I heard and just correct me. So one of the things we're talking about here is Darly. Does healthy donuts and they're ridiculously good, right? So she is essentially created these healthy donuts. Now we all love donuts, but we all know donuts have this. You know, they're not the healthiest things on the planet. We are you believe they're the least healthiest things. So here comes Darly saying I can actually make a doughnut That is delicious. That is actually healthy. So that's the first thing. So we're talking about Dolly's donuts here. So that's this is one aspect of her expertise and the major drive of her business. So then it sounds like what you're asking is that in Mexico, essentially a healthy Nona since simply comes down to how many calories does it have? That's about as far as the individuals in Mexico sort of think about it, they just go, Hey, how many calories? And you say, Well, it's pretty low calorie. And they go, it tastes great. Amen. Right? Yeah. And it sounds like what's happening here in the United States is you're going you're thinking, you're gonna come here and go, Well, they're low calorie, and they taste great. And instead, you're getting questions about like, well, what kind of fat is in there? And you know, how much sugar and what kind of sweetener did you use? And what kind of excipients and binders are in there? And what kind of preservatives are in there? And all these questions. And then on top of that, it looks like you're wrestling with this idea that in the United States, there's all these different factions, the Paleo Diet people, the vegan people, the vegetarian people, the carnivore people, the, you know, sort of low fat people, the high fat people, et cetera. Right. So then I guess the question around that is, how do you create a product that speaks to all of these individuals in America? Right, right. And what did I miss there in that

Darly  14:20 

I guess, like we do, we do see the macros, you know, like, protein, fat and carbs, right? In calories. So that's like what we what our eyes when I say us like us fitness people back home, people that do know like nutrition, it's nutrition is fitness coaches and all the fitness related people go for these, you know, the calorie amount, the, the fat, the carbs and the protein. Other than that, it's not really you know, as important As important as it is here, you know, there's the keto diet, that it's more of a trending than anything. It's not like I am celiac, and I need gluten free products. It's more like, oh, yeah, I just follow the keto diet because my neighbor who she knows it all, you know, is on that diet, and she's lost weight. So, people do not know all this information behind what it really is to know the ingredients and what they do to your body, etcetera, etcetera. So, in here, I do see that that is important. Yeah, that is really important. Yeah.

Jade  15:40 

Okay, so let's start with so obviously, this is a business discussion. So here's the way that I would begin to look at this and some of this stuff. You know, you all who are listening, you know, and I want you to to Darly, just push back on me and you and I, as friends, we'll just kind of go back and forth, because some of this is going to seem perhaps counterintuitive at first, and we'll just kind of circle around. But it this is, in business, there's certain philosophy, so I have a philosophy. So the first philosophy I have is that you don't create a product for everybody. This is the first sort of major role. And the reason why is because if you try to create a product for everyone, you're kind of creating a product for no one. In other words, marketing, in my way of looking at it is it's convincing people, right? It is influencing people. And in a sense, it's a down payment on results, one of the things that we don't often talk about with marketing, and there's an actually really interesting study, I'll share with you Darly, and everybody here, but marketing when you mark it, a lot of people don't love marketing. But marketing is one of these things where, if you do it, well, people are already convinced, it's like the placebo effect, they're already sort of convinced that this is going to work for them before they even get it. And if the marketing is good, there, they the donut will actually taste better to them than it would otherwise. And if the marketing is bad, they already developing perhaps not a good taste for the donut. So what a lot of people don't realize is that marketing, actually, is something that gives people is partly responsible for the result that people get with the product. And so if we understand that, and the marketing is too vague, or trying to talk to everybody, we're essentially not convincing any one group of people to the degree that we need to have a successful business. So that's the first thing I would say is you have to pick a market. Now. Eventually, you'll get to the point where if you're successful enough, you'll probably have doughnuts for all types. There'll be a Keto donut line, there'll be a paleo donut line, maybe there's a carnivore donut line, it's just a big sausage bacon wrapped around it, you know what I mean? So like. So the idea though, is you don't start there. The the idea is you start with the group that you feel most comfortable talking to. And normally that's going to be the group that you're most passionate about, which is normally the group that is related to Darly. So that's the first thing I'll say, and actually the study that I'm talking about as a is a researcher by the name of Alia Crum. It's a really interesting study. So what they did is they took a chocolate milkshake. And they had two groups of people. I think she's at Stanford University, that two groups of people they gave this chocolate milkshake to. And the first group, they gave a low calorie diet, chocolate shake to the group. And before they gave them a shake, they measured hunger hormones, and they measured hunger hormones afterwards, and they asked them questions about what did you think? How did it make you feel? Did it fill you up or not? So the next group, they gave a high calorie chocolate shake, too, right. So one was a diet chocolate shake. The other one was a high calorie chocolate shake. And they did the same thing measured hunger hormones before and after, and then looked at satiety and all these things. So obviously, the people who took the high calorie shake, felt more full and had greater satiation than the people that had the low calorie shake. The problem was, there was no difference in the shake at all, the shake was exactly the same, it was just labeled differently. And the label actually was able to change people's hormonal responses to these meals, just by expectation alone. And what this tells us is that our marketing as business people needs to be in a way that is convincing enough to create this placebo response. So in other words, you have to come in and essentially, you know, be in a position where you're like my doughnuts do this and are for these people. So that's the first sort of rule and there's a book called Blue Ocean Strategy if you ever read this book, okay. So you know, so you know what, we're where we're going with this. And for those who don't know, Blue Ocean Strategy, essentially a book that essentially says, when people think about businesses, they want to find a blue ocean, right? Instead of a red ocean a red ocean with Beware, Darlene goes into business. And she goes to a place in the ocean, where everybody is doing business and it's just a free for all fighting. So in other words, she might go and be like, Alright, there's these everyone is in the gluten free cookie business, and I'm gonna go on a gluten free cookie cookie business. Now, the problem with that is there's so much competition there, she's gonna get have a hard time getting noticed. However, if she goes, I'm gonna go into the gluten free donut business. Maybe now she gets a little bit of the recognition from the gluten free cookie business, but now she's in a clear ocean. And so the idea is to niche down into where you want, sort of to get to where you think your blue ocean is. And so I'll ask you questions about this. Now, what is it that you? How did you come up with the don'ts? What was the original idea for these donuts in the first place?

Darly  20:53 

Actually, now that you mentioned that book, I always have this reference with every single person that comes and works with my team. This is how I explain it. I am not selling, you know, the cure for cancer, like I am not, you know, creating something that's never seen before I'm selling protein. Protein is already out there in so many versions. But what I'm selling is the experience of it being fun, you know, because yeah, as you know, athletes are always, you know, watching what we eat the amount of protein, the pre workout, the post workout, and there's a lot of people like you and I out there that you know, one that fun part too. So that's, that was the idea of it all. And that's how I describe that we cannot put ourselves next to all the healthy bars out there all the healthy, you know, the healthy category, because if I go there, it's a blue ocean are a red ocean for me. It's saturated with a lot of other brands, you know, so I am not competing with them. Like those are not my, my competitors. I am standing where I stand next to maybe you know, protein powder. Yeah, like the protein shakes or a protein bar, which is not the same. Although we offer the same thing. You know, it's not the same product. It's, we I'm a donor, you're a bar and your powder. Yes, but we're offering the same protein intake.

Jade  22:41 

Yeah, so for those you listening, so Darly already has positioned her doughnuts in an area that she knows people are interested in, because she knows that people eat protein shakes. And she knows people want protein bars. And she knows proteins on a lot of athletes radar and a lot of weight loss people's radar. She's creating a protein donut, which by the way, is kind of tough to do, right? Like actually one of my favorite products that I eat every day is a protein waffle called Viking waffles. And they are doing really well as well. Right. So the idea then is if that is how the reason why that story is important is because from my perspective, it informs where you go next. Right? So then we start going Okay, so who is this person? Right? So it sounds like there's this idea of like, look, sometimes you just want a doughnut, might as well have protein with it. Right? So it's, it's basically this idea of this is perfect for me, you know, because I have a sweet tooth. I also know that if you give me a regular doughnut, I'm going to eat six of those things. But when I have your doughnut, right, I have one, two, usually it's one and a half, and then I you know, but I'm full. And I'm like, Okay, this fills me up and the protein is what is filling me up. So in a sense, then you have to kind of go all right now, and this is how we began the conversation around this. So we don't necessarily we want to basically go okay, how much does this cost? And how much would it? How much would it affect the flavor and the formula and the end unit cost to make it gluten free to add coconut oil to do all these things and that that begins to play our role. So there's two conversations to be had here. One conversation is what's my margins with the actual formula? How much can I tweak it without you know making it cost ineffective and for those of you listening to this who have never run a business what you don't understand is that the margins on these things I've done this multiple times they are nowhere near what the average person thinks they are they these margins are not big. It takes a lot to bring bring a product like this to market and you have to sell a lot of them before you really start seeing a difference and so you You can't just go mucking around with your formula, you have to prove that formula first. And I can see Darlene nodding because she is, you know, probably in in agreement with this. So then it's really about if I have the formula, and I know that's the best tasting formula, and I know what it looks like, what are the tweaks I can make on the margins without changing my bottom line? And then who am I actually talking to? Right? So you're probably not the carnivore people are not anyone, you probably want to talk to them. They want they want bacon, they want a meat doughnut, right? Maybe one day, you'll create that, but they're out in my mind right? Now, this doesn't mean I'm right. But I'm just saying, you know, because, but but from my perspective, you know, and your business partner is probably like, I hate this guy, but like, from my perspective, like a donut and a carnivore, like, it's just not in their value system, you know, period, you know, unless it's, you know, like, a bunch of sausage links made in the shape of a doughnut, I don't know. And then I just go well, the Paleo diet, people, you know, these are people who, you know, they're, they're all about like, ancestral living, primal people, same kind of thing. They don't really like processed foods, in general, right? So you're looking for people who are active, who are not afraid of some degree of processed foods and want good tasting foods that are convenient base foods that taste good, that they can quickly have that will not cause them to over eat, right? So from my perspective, if if you're in agreement with that, then that becomes someone that you really began talking to, as you know, sort of an avatar now that might be people who are in the gyms slightly overweight, like you know, sweets and things like that. And I might be people who are seriously fit individuals love sweets, but it's definitely someone who is fit out there like looking for high protein foods, but also wants to have like one, you know, wants to eat sweets, and, you know, wants those kinds of foods in their lives. And so to me, that begins a conversation then around. All right, these are people who prioritize protein and prioritize taste, and prioritize convenience. What else would it be?

Darly  27:23 

I mean, don't we all love, you know, sweets, at some point, we always have this craving. So my market is so big, and we I have so many in on direct, I don't know if I'm saying that right, but not like direct competitors. Because Krispy Kreme back home is one of my competitors. Like, although we're not, we're not offering the same thing we are, it's a donut. So I'm, you know, selling to children, I'm selling to moms, I am selling to these other on direct clientele that also just consumed me because of the flavor. So it's not just the protein, it all started with the protein in for a fitness, you know, market. But now it's a lot of other type of people that I also, it's kind of like, it's difficult because it from a marketing point of view, you can be talking to all of these people, but then you're talking to everybody. And just as like you said before you, you want to talk to and sell to everybody, but at the end you're not sending to anybody. So like having a straight communication. And this is what it is for any of you want to consume me then good. But I am not focusing on selling to children, for example, right? That will change the whole idea of what it was made for in the first place.

Jade  28:56 

But it sounds like maybe, right, it sounds like maybe you are, you can find a niche on, you know, maybe you're not selling to children, but maybe you are selling to fitness mothers, mothers who are fitness oriented, who have kids who want to feed their kids healthy food, and also know their kids are craving sweets, but they're more eating these things for them. So they're getting these donuts, because they're also wanting something quick and fun. And they're mainly the consumer of the donut, but they can share it with their kids as well. So the whole point of that is I'm not saying that's the market, but the whole point is to go who's buying it now. Right? Who are my major people who are buying it now and what is the story and this is where that whole avatar of your customer comes in? Where you say what is the story that people are essentially having around these foods like to me I can see a mom just being like, I just get cravings and I want some sweet and fast you know it's sometimes I just want to do But it's that that whole thing where you're capturing in marketing, you basically go in marketing. The trick is to go, who are my, my clients already? And then what is their life? Like? And how do I speak to more of them? So let's do that real quick together. Like, if you had to say, Who are the people that are mostly buying, you're mostly buying this product are mostly interested in this product? And first, let's do it in Mexico, because I know it's slightly different, but who are they in Mexico, and then who has been expressing the most interest in the United States?

Darly  30:35 

So I'd say the profile is between the age of 24 and 45, mostly women and men that workout and care for their health. If I could describe it generally right? In these people normally are active. So it doesn't matter what sport it doesn't matter what discipline they are looking for a recovery, or a for a pre workout snack, and instead of going for that, you know, boring bar, that I love myself to you get a doughnut, you know, and it's more fun. So, I would say, around that age, males and females that are very active in the States, I have not really like I could not tell you for sure. Like what I like my conclusion, I just see like a whole bunch of you know, and I think my, my closest to my, to my answer to that is you when I brought you doughnuts and you love them as like, I think I think you are my buyer persona. Like if I could describe my buyer persona here, it would be someone like you. I've met so many people, and I think Asheville too, is very vaguely for this industry. And I might be wrong on that. But I wonder like, what if I went to another city, let's say Austin, Texas, Miami or even Nashville, like what would these people think? They're there's it's so different job do graphically speaking to

Jade  32:28 

yeah. And let's keep playing with this. Because I because I have a theory that if you got a good product, and you got good marketing, you'll make it work wherever you go. And if you if you don't have the marketing worked out, even if you go to a big city, it's going to be Yeah, problematic. So let's go through really quickly, would you say the price point on this donut is high, medium or low compared to the other things in the market? Let's focus on proteins and protein powders is it more expensive than a protein bar about the same, you know,


Darly  32:58 

and Mexico, it's less expensive. If I was to sell it here, it would be about the same? Yeah, about the same. And I think here, it's more I would be, again, going in a very like red ocean, just because the industry is not the same as it is in Mexico is not as developed in Mexico as it is here. You have so many brands here that offer so many different things. And we don't have that we outsource from you guys. Like everything is important. So back home, I am almost like the only I don't know brand. And here. I know, there I've done my research. I know that there's already like small intrapreneurs, like making it happening making it happen in their own cities. And these are big cities. So I'm sure that there was a lot of planning around that. Like, you know, like, to me the geography of the where you start the business is very important. And I saw it back home to i Sorry, I'm going in all directions. But just to like, make a point there. To me, I think it is important where you started just because you're selling a fresh product, you know, you're selling a food. So even if you found a way to packages and like send it like that, you wouldn't be guaranteeing the freshness of the doughnut, right. So back home what I did, and I started like that was it just like sending doughnuts everywhere, and then dealing with quality issues, right? So I narrowed it down to the point where I'm just gonna focus on the big cities Monterrey, Mexico City, Puebla, and all the where the money is, you know, and like the, the people are not going to hesitate in like, oh, no, this is too expensive. And that would be the case for smaller cities, you know? So that's that One point and then. So here, it would be around the same price of a high quality protein bar. And I think that it would still be affordable just because I've also seen that coffee shops here offer their regular muffins, their regular cookies, no, like with regular ingredients for $5 to nice HP. So I think

Jade  35:32 

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Not to mention it tastes fantastic. But they're one of these companies, like my other sponsors, cured nutrition and Organa phi that are doing the right things by the environment. I really appreciate everything they do. And I hope you will check them out. Thanks so much paleo. valley.com use the code next level. And now back to the show. So based on that, so I liked that discussion, because from my perspective, when I look at businesses there, and we all got a hint on sort of where darlings mind is with this. And this also means you obviously know your business. I don't I've never done a donut shop, right. But it sounds like to me like you're thinking, Okay, this isn't something I make in my kitchen package up and send to different states. This is something that I have in a local city that I open up shop and or go to other shops and essentially say, Do you want to offer sort of my doughnuts, right? And so from my perspective, you know, there's different ways to look at that. So you go, but the marketing needs to be tight, regardless, so then you go, where do we start? Right? And from my perspective, if I was doing something like this, I would essentially go okay, so what I'm gonna start doing is I'm gonna go to the places where, let's say people who are fit, have expendable income are, you know, you know, sort of have time and also, you know, probably are busy. So for me, the first things that come to mind are places like CrossFit, places like golfing, things like triathletes, you know, these especially, you know, one reason I say that is because CrossFit is a pretty expensive, monthly, you know, thing for most memberships, they're gonna have money, they are also sort of community so they would be talking about anything they have and passing it around. Golfers as well have money expendable time tend to roll in groups tend to talk a lot. Same thing with triathletes, right? So this is how my mind begins to work right? And not to mention all of these types. Unlike 25 year old or you know, 26 year old 27 year old it just goes to Gold's Gym. And as always, like, you know, the next thing, whatever is the cheapest thing or whatever they love the most or whatever, they don't always stick with one brand. So at least from my perspective, and again, this is just me and you kind of shooting the shit here and just figuring it out. Because you may disagree in some of the people at home listening to this may disagree as well. But the way I always think about is I go, what kind of client would I want that? So I know it's a fitness client, I know someone who cares about their health, then I go, Well, if it's me, I want someone who has money, who's going to be a repeat buyer, who's not going to be like, how much are these things, you know, who's, who also is going to be rolling and having and talking to a lot of different people. So those would be three right off the bat, then I would be thinking about, okay, who are service professionals who work with these kinds of people. So now I'm looking at things like, you know, spas, coffee shops, people who cut hair, you know, all of this kind of stuff. And I just wrote for me with business, I throw all these things out first, and I go, okay, you know, where can I enter? And then the final thing would be like, well, I know people who, you know, what, if people are already going to pastry shops and coffee shops and stuff like that, and there's a lot of healthy fit people who do that, and maybe I can place my product there, especially if it's a coffee shop, near a gym, or in a gym, that would have this. And so this is the way that I would begin to be thinking about this. And the way I might prove it is I might go to the you know, CrossFit, Asheville or CrossFit, summit CrossFit, or whatever gyms and show up there and ask the owner, hey, I'm, you know, have some product I would love to give for free to your clients, you know, you get involved in that way. Right. So and maybe, you know, for me, just knowing how I would be when I was a little bit younger, I would probably go to the different gyms have memberships at these different gyms, make friends with everybody and just sort of bring them as gifts to the owners, and start there, I would probably also be going around to all the different, you know, healthy or health oriented coffee shops and things like that. See, if they were interested, I would also be looking at going to different events and trying to get in those events, when you got to go to, you know, the 5k run or the you know, St. Patrick's Day run or the all these sorts of events, or the one you just did you know you and your boyfriend just did the sport, the Spartan Race, right, like so those kinds of things are what I would be sort of thinking about. And what it allows you to do is because I think in business, we oftentimes think of build it and they will come you know, it's the idea of like, I'll build the whole thing. I'll make the whole plan and then people will come Well, normally, it never works that way, right? And it almost always works like let me go in a particular direction and let it unfold. And let me learn about sort of my marketplace. So that's the way I would be handling that. And then if I thought it was Nashville, right, it's pretty close here. Charlotte and Nashville, Charlotte a little closer, Nashville is about four hours away, you know, Greenville is about an hour away. Probably probably similar to Asheville, though, but Charlotte, and maybe Nashville and maybe Atlanta because I think Atlanta is four hours away. Nashville is four hours away Charlotte's two hours away. That could be something that you could do once a month, you go to one of these other cities, you drop off, you know, you make calls, you drop off some of these products and see, you know, so this is your market research, you basically begin to see who's most interested in it while you're formulating your sort of marketing plan. And the marketing plan to me would essentially be having the conversation around what health and fitness people in the United States, even you know, the ones that aren't extreme, so obviously, we're not gonna be talking to the Paleo diet, but what are they most interested in, and what they're most interested in, in the US is they want to, there's a couple things they'll look at with this kind of stuff, they're gonna look at macros, protein, carbohydrates, fat, they're gonna look at ingredients, they don't really want a whole lot of ingredients in there. So it's like, if there's five ingredients in there, that's better for an American, then if there's six ingredients in there, they also want ingredients that are relatively natural, or at least they know what they are. So for example, if you put something like resveratrol in a doughnut, you know, or allulose in a doughnut, a lot, some people may not know what that is. And so there might need to be a little bit of marketing of how good that is for you on your, on your website. Right. So to me, that's the stuff they look at it would be like, you know, you know, a doughnut with 15 grams of protein or whatever it is only five ingredients. And we use allulose as our sweetener, which has been shown in research to not spike insulin and have a more satiating response. And so you anticipate those sorts of questions right away and then if you can, obviously make a gluten free diet Not, that tastes just as good as the regular donut, and doesn't cost any more like that, to me would be, you know, a useful move. But I would start with what already works right and then began to sort of work backwards. But I do know that those are the things that we're looking at. This is an industry, amen. So you know, Darly and I were talking about many of you know, that metabolic.com is my company. And we are building products like this. So we have an awful lot of product, research and development in this and this is the trend that people who are health oriented want, very little, you know, we they want short ingredient list ingredient lists that they can pronounce. They want, you know, a calorie level that's not, you know, excessive, and they want to know that they you know, at least the illusion of, you know, health. Now, with this particular thing, I'll say one more thing that we'll see what all this brings up for you. But with this particular thing, the idea, from my perspective, there's several different ways to go with this, right, you can essentially go, this is healthier junk food, or this is you know, and the reason I put it that way is because you just want to make sure, right, it's just like this, by the way is not your probably where you would never go. But I'm just for the full discussion here. There's different ways to look at this, right, like there is a whole market of creating junk foods that seem like junk foods that are that are healthier versions. And then there is a whole market of like, you know, basically held completely healthy versions of something that's junk food. So you're a completely healthy version of something that's normally considered a junk food. So in order to the only reason I bring that up is because then that informs your marketing. So it'd be like, you know, Dolly's donuts are like your favorite protein bar on steroids. Without the blah, blah, blah. And without this, you see the mean. So the marketing, you come up with short little marketing terms, hooks, that tell the whole story very quickly. And a hook really, in my mind is just, you think x, it's really y. So it'd be like, You think a donut is the worst thing for you. This donut is as good as you know, two eggs or something like that, right? You know, so you basically just change what people are thinking about in the marketing, but you have to decide which direction you're coming from first, right, you have to go through all those things and be like, some people want a healthy junk food. Some people want just something that tastes good, that's healthy, and convenient. So I think you're in that category. But I'll shut up now and see what that brings up. And if that, if any, that's helpful for you, or, yeah,

Darly  47:56 

definitely, I think the communication is so important, no matter what you're selling. For every single product, you need to know what you want your hook is exactly how you said it. And I think that's, that's going to be a huge, interesting challenge for me in the US. Because I do know where the hook is for my Mexican clientele. And like, what is that, by the way, that is, um, so I, I describe it this way. So food porn is always going to be a hook, no matter what that is, they don't, the first thing they're gonna see is something delicious. There, their brain is not, you know, seeing if the chocolate is sugar free or not, you know, like, if you see something delicious on Instagram, you're going to stop there, like it, share it, save it, whatever. That's one and then right after that one is the protein word. So this deliciousness is packed with protein. So these are my two main points in my communication back home. And that's what gives me all the clients I don't really need to you know, getting to details with ingredients with when to eat it, you know, like obviously, it's something that I do communicate, but these are my main hooks back home, it looks so good. Any has protein obviously you need to have like the segmentation for that, you know, like for runners, indoor cycling all these sports that I tend to target and when they get hooked by the not only like the delicious part, but also the protein part, then that's a leap for me. Yeah, that's how they come. I don't know if that works here. And you

Jade  49:55 

know, I actually think it does and I think you brought up a couple things that we should unpack Right, because there's two ways to do this, right? There's one hook could be, you know, everyone loves doughnuts, but they don't eat them because they're unhealthy. Right? That's, that's, that's what they think. So then it's like you think x, it's really y. So everyone loves doughnuts, but we don't eat them, because we think they're unhealthy. But what if you could eat a doughnut that kept you full and satisfied for hours after and the way you would communicate this is that, you know, imagine the most delicious donut, you know, you can think of that is only 150 calories, but feels like 300 calories and keeps you from eating 3000 calories later. So it's this idea of playing with these things of like, if you eat this doughnut, now, it's going to keep you eating a better diet later. And now that's going after a weight loss oriented individual, right. Or you can essentially say, you know, the sport donut, you know, like, so that could be your thing like this is this is a donut for people who are involved with sports, or this is a donut for people who are interested in weight loss. And you began to really get clear with that, because from my perspective, that's the first thing that you want to do in the United States, you want to niche down to one group? So is it sports people? Or is it diet people now, based on the Blue Ocean Strategy concept, we know that the diet industry is probably a red ocean. So the sport concept might be a better may be a better place to start if you can get the marketing. Right, right. So then it's just like, you know, Donut, the, you know, the sport donut, you know, something that you know, and you develop a marketing around that, and then you basically figure that out by dropping that, that product into that environment and see how people respond, respond.

Darly  52:07 

That's, that's so interesting that you brought that up, because that's one of the most repetitive things that I talk about. When I speak to my team, we cannot just, you know, think that we can talk to the healthy person, it's, I tried so hard for so long, just to stay on the fitness person, let's talk to the fitness one fitness, fitness. And I do believe that it's so everything in the fitness industry. And this is just my point of view, I might be wrong, this is how I perceive it is aspiring, so you aspire to be better every time you know, because it requires so much discipline. It's like the soul of the fitness, you know, environment, you push yourself, you create a better version of yourself every single time you show up to do the work right? For whatever that is tennis shoes, sport, wear, whatever you're wearing to go and do your sport, you are already putting on a suit that it's a better version of yourself. You're so that part, I think that I want it to project by like, I that's what I want. And so if you eat my doughnuts, you're aspiring to be a better version, because you're just already choosing a better option for your health, you know, and that's how I do it about home. I, I think that could work here. Like I'm just trying to, you know, get to know it more. I know, Americans quench question everything. So I just want to be ready for to have every single answer in the right way. You know, like, Yeah, I know, you might prefer a gluten free, but you know, I can have an answer a solid answer for you and not just be like, what I say to this, like, I can't Yeah, that's true. I can't offer this or, you know what I'm saying?

Jade  54:10 

Yeah, and that's where I think it comes down to just being very clear on that. It's like ownership and it is marketing. It's just like, Nope, you know, and just be that's not your client. Like, like, to me, it's like we don't have a gluten free option. So and you just confidently say that. No, these have gluten, you know, yeah, and plenty Mote the vast majority of people can handle gluten just fine. So you're in actually a market where most people reside. Right? And you'll just have to and another way to say that softer is the gluten free version isn't out yet. Right? You know what I mean? The gluten free version isn't, you know, isn't out yet. But, you know, for those who are, you know, celiacs they probably shouldn't have our donut but what we found is that, you know if this is true, I don't know but you want to figure out if this is gentle on people's digestive system. You asked questions like that, like people who have gluten, non celiac gluten sensitivity or whatever, like how are these donors on your digestive tract, right. So you can literally say, in marketing, that, you know, we don't have the gluten free option out yet, but what we found is that this doughnut is exceedingly gentle on people's digestive tracts. And you get that by simply putting it out there and always following up with surveys. So for example, let's say you go to, you know, the local 5k in Asheville or something like that, and you're handing out doughnuts, and you get people's emails, you know, not everyone's gonna get, you know, give you their email. But let's say, you know, you have 100 people stopped by and 10, people give you their emails, and then you send out an email to those individuals and ask them to fill out a survey one of those people, maybe two of those people are actually going to fill out the survey, but that survey is going to give you really good information about your product. And I think most people, when they're building businesses, they forget they, they're more in their head going, Okay, here's what I think it is. And not gathering data, even if it's two people, you want to begin gathering data around that. And the other thing I would say is, depending on how you'd like if you go to a couple CrossFit gyms, and after their classes, they're just crushing your doughnuts. That tells you something, and if you're having a hard time communicating with, you know, just general healthy people, that tells you something, and if you're going into triathletes, and they're coming off their bikes, and they're just like, that was fantastic. Where do I get more of those? That tells you something? So I think in the building phase, a lot of the questions that we as business owners have, will be answered the idea from my perspective is, and I was talking to Darlene about this as well, which I could get, I'll probably be asking you for advice on this story. But I'm going to be starting a coffee company. So the idea then, with the coffee companies, I have the idea of how I want to think about coffee and why I'm going into coffee. But then I have to let the market prove that I'm right or wrong and be willing to go in, in that direction. So I think, based on where we are now, in this discussion, from my perspective, I would be thinking about, okay, Americans, you know, have the certain ways of looking at things, they're interested in ingredients, they're interested in number of ingredients, they're interested in the ability to pronounce ingredients, they're interested in the macronutrients, they're interested in the calories. In the end, you and I both know, that all could be perfect. But if the donut tastes like ass, no one's gonna want to have that doughnut, right? So ultimately, it comes down to if that and by the way, if it's so good, right, it's the best thing they've ever tasted, they're gonna be a little bit more lenient, on the ingredients, right? So that's really what they're looking at first, it's the way it tastes and cost, then it's all these sorts of other things. And then you have to essentially go how deep do I want to go with that? So, you know, already I can tell, based on loving this product, there's not much in it, it is a pretty simple product. It is incredibly filling, it's got a really nice amount of protein, and it does not sacrifice on taste, it tastes to me, like, you know, a real cakey donut that I would rather have than a protein bar. Right. And, and so I think those are things you know, and then the rest, you have to just go, I will I'm not going to have that discussion with people, if they want gluten free. I don't do that yet. If they want this, I don't do that yet. And that'll save you the mental emotional turmoil of just going no, that's not my client. If you're a vegan or vegetarian, it's not my client, unless you can go Oh, yeah, coconut oil versus, you know, like, that might be a good, that's something I would probably do. It's like, okay, well to make the decision about coconut oil versus butter would come down to well, are we using whey protein? Is there already dairy in it? Or, you know, are we using a plant based protein? Well, we're using a plant based protein, let's go with coconut oil, because then we can call it plant based, right? And then we can be like, this is a completely vegan, vegetarian friendly, you know, piece, but you can't get lost in that because ultimately, your product is what it is a standalone product right now. And I would say you don't alter it at all because it works. And you basically put it out in the market, figure out where that niche is build it from there. Once you start getting income coming in. Right, then you can branch off and develop another line and then you slowly see how that works. Yeah, I think the big mistake that I've seen people make in business is that they try to do it all at once when I built my first company. So I got I basically came out and I was like I want to be a wellness company, which meant I wanted to do this thing where I wanted workouts, nutrition and mindset right from the beginning in 2004. And luckily I didn't know any better I just got lucky. But I was like, You know what workouts are what people want. It's the easiest is the lowest hanging fruit. I'll start with that. And I built a successful boot camp. Then I began to move into nutrition. So the workout and I wrote a book based on that, right. So I built this boot camp, built this cert, this workout, wrote a book, the book became popular in that book, I introduced some of the nutrition component, then I opened up the nutrition side of the business. Now I was right, because the workout stuff still always sells better than the nutrition stuff. And then, you know, the mindset is the hardest, sort of, and then off of that, I went into supplements and did different stuff out of protein shake for a while, protein cookies for a while different things that I that I did, that I was never as successful as you because it's a different mindset with that stuff. But I was happy that I built a base of people with exercise. And when I went into nutrition and added that on a certain percentage of them came right over to nutrition, versus if I tried to do all three at once. Right, I don't think I would have been successful.

Darly  1:01:08 

All right, well, my vision with this brand. And before I continue what I'm saying I can tell you right now that my two main acids right now is my product. So my formula, and knowing that it works, that's that's that works, you know, that already have in the brand. The my I know my name, right, but it worked. It worked. And now that I have those two, they have the green light. So I just need to focus on my business model, right, like how to make it work that can expand as I want to, in the vision with the whole brand and company one day is that to offer more, not just the doughnut itself, right? I think if we dip in more into this conversation of like, what the potential is and like, how to sail, like, make it interesting. I need to sell. Country waste. And I think you mentioned that to me before. If there was a way for that to happen, yeah, there would be a lot more right to the to the company. And that's what I'm trying to figure out. There's a product that we're developing, that it's going to be sold in a powder version, but in a very creative way. And it's the doughnut powder, so but that you can sell and you can ship, you know, and I will I at least at this point, I don't want to sacrifice, the quality and the old hygiene part of selling a food in a doughnut my donor like I don't, I would not risk, you know, shipping it again. And seeing like those reviews that are not the best, you know, I want to bake my donut and hand it to you directly for you to put it in your mouth, which is the experience that I want to offer.

Jade  1:03:14 

And let's get back to the show. So now think about this as a marketing strategy then right so this is how I would be looking at so now everyone can have your donut because you're now packaging it in a way that they can get it and then the donut itself becomes the marketing. So now if you look at if you go out and capture everything you're doing out in this community, right because let's look at a different ways of doing it. Buying a brick and mortar store, in my mind is what most people would do. And it's probably the worst thing to do right off the bat. And the reason why is because there's no proven market yet for this. So you're what you're doing I think is mitigating risks. So what you do is you bake these things you go out bring what you bait to different places, you record what's going on. So you're videotaping yourself, making the donuts, seeing the deliciousness, seeing people smile on their face, when they're doing the donuts, putting all this stuff all over your media all over your website, et cetera, that then pushes people to go I want these donuts, well if you're not local, you can actually get the donuts here all that also brings into videos of you using the powder or making all kinds of different donuts, putting up recipes, it makes a lot of sense from this perspective and you may find that you never need to you know essentially a build the doughnut business up here that this this powder actually allows you to make enough revenue to open up your shop. Right and so to me that's the right approach with this because to me, it's like there should be several different you know, avenues and there's lots of different ways to go here and you can you can do all kinds of things with this, you know, like you could sell coffee with coffee and donuts goes perfect together right so you can you begin saying how can I add on to this business that makes sense. You may actually find out you're shipping this delicious coffee Along with this, you know, and people are like I really love, you know Dolly's coffee. I like a donuts, but I really just love her coffee too. And you slowly do that, as you then one day now have a coffee shop that is, you know, a Darly store. And, you know, it sounds like you're thinking along these along these lines. And I think this is the better way to approach this because it's basically a three pronged approach, right? The approach is, well, I've got something I can sell anybody, if they want it, I am exploring the market here, in, you know, by doing events and selling them where I can. And then to me, the third one would be looking for individuals who existing business owners like this would be a big piece that I would be doing existing business owners that would want to sell your donuts. And to me, that's gym owners, CrossFit places you know. You know, golf club houses, these types of things, and not just coffee shops, but obviously, coffee shops. And that's how you begin the process while getting very clear on your avatar because we just started the discussion, right? Like the avatar is the person who you go, okay, so it's basically my avatar, his Jade with a wig, maybe you know what I mean? It's a woman like Jade has got a lot who loves sweets, he's very fitness oriented, right? So it's like, you gotta get that avatar like and just be like, This is who it is. And from my perspective, you start going from, you know, in that direction, and actually, you know, and so now I'll ask you a question. Because just to kind of bring on what would you do? If you how would you do this? If you were going to if I was to ask you, okay, darling, I'm going to start a coffee company, what would be your steps in that process? For me? Like, what advice? Would you say? Okay, here's what you have to think about. Because in you educating me, you're gonna see things that you'd want to do and me educating you are giving my feedback, I want to see things that I'd want to do. But I'm curious, what would you do?

Darly  1:12:11 

I guess I would ask you what the difference between your coffee and all the other coffees that are, you know, five minutes away in the, like, the supermarket are, you know, like, what is your added value? And in I've seen brands that do offer something, you know, I don't know if that's the name of the brand, there's as strong coffee, I think that I, I found out about it when I was back home, and I even like, got it shipped to Mexico to try it. Yeah. And this coffee offers like MCT oil, stuff to recover in, like, cognitive, you know, things there that help you focus or whatever. So it works for me as a pre workout and also as like, my quote unquote, Adderall for today, you know, like, so that for me made sense, you know, yeah,

Jade  1:13:12 

I love that, because that's exactly where I was hoping you would go with this. And I think it's a good lesson. So listen to you all her listen to her thing about business. So here's a business owner who's built a already a successful business. And immediately she's saying, What, again, where's your where's your sort of blue ocean, right? And so for me, it's really interesting, cuz there's two ways to look at this. There's one way where you start playing in this coffee plus game, which I don't want to do. Or there's this other thing where you essentially, here's the idea behind this Now, whether this works and as all proven in the marketplace, but to me, people coffee is the second most highly traded commodity on the planet, after oil. So there's obviously a demand for it. Right. So that's the first reason I'm going coffees low hanging fruit. The other thing I know about coffee is that once people find a good coffee, they tend to stick with that coffee. I also feel like coffee is the way we connect, it becomes part of identity. If you're a coffee lover lover, it becomes something you identify with. And so the angle here has in my mind has not there's two ways you can have an angle, it could be like I'm going to add extra things to the coffee, or the coffee is going to tap into your identity. So if Darly loves coffee, and she also sees herself not just as a coffee drinker, but as a good human, who prioritizes kindness and generosity. Then next level human coffee is what you would want to be drinking because next level human coffee, the whole marketing is going to essentially be going out and doing good deeds. So it's basically good people drink you know, good people good coffee, right? So this idea of, of the whole marketing is the coffee. There's no difference, like taste wise. You know, you could sit down and be like, I don't know it's good coffee. But I like my coffee too. The whole idea is to tap into someone's identity the same way you're tapping into someone's identity. If like, Jada is a fitness guy who also does not want to be someone who doesn't enjoy food, I want to go have a drink with you, as my friend, I want to go eat good food, I don't want to just be crazy. So next level human coffee is this idea of like, you're a coffee drinker, you're also a good human, a kind human, a generous human, someone who wants to do good in the world. And so the coffee not only gives to, let's say ocean cleanup, and all the things that I give to, right, the organization goes, you know, we are helping the environment, we are, you know, helping, you know, that would be a big one. I'm also big with ACLU and, you know, equality in the world and women's health issues and stuff like that. So next level coffee would be doing that stuff as well giving its profits to that. But it was such a you just be doing good things in the marketing would be going around. And like, for example, when I go people think I'm crazy, but this is just sort of what I do. But when I go out to eat, I usually leave $100 tip I've done really well, monetarily now, and I want to share that. And I yeah, I want to give back in that way. And I just want to leave, you know, like the next level human card, it says thank you for what you do, because I don't think people get, they don't realize the difference that they're making. And so if you're someone who's oriented that way, and you're listening to me and going, what a cool concept, of course, I want to interact with a company that is doing good deeds in the world, and just helping people that and I'm also a coffee drinker, you're gonna want to drink this coffee. So that's my blue ocean strategy with the coffee. And I do think as business owners and people thinking about business, we sometimes miss that people will identify with our donut, or our coffee or whatever product we're giving, not just because of what it will do, but what it says about them and their identity. You know, if you're somebody who's like, I'm a fitness person, I also like to have fun and sit and eat good food. And it's part of my culture, you know, I'm Italian, you know, it's like, I want to sit and have wine and food, and I want to have fun. And that is ultimately what you're, you know, sort of saying it's a big piece of it. So that is part of the strategy. And that's part of, to me, it's mainly the strategy out in the world of like, when they go to your website, and they go through your social media platforms and all that. That's the vibe they're gonna get from this other human coffee and dollies donuts,


Darly  1:17:34 

right? And you know, what, you just made me think of the importance of the values behind a company, it's, obviously who owns it, that their values has to align to what they're creating, you know, I am a huge believer that my values have to be projected and reflected and on my, on my business, on my quality on my service to my, to my clients, you know, if not, it wouldn't make sense. I know that businesses and this is what we were taught all the time. And there might be some truth behind that, that businesses are cold. Businesses have to be you know, aggressive and like, in Yes, but No, yes, but no, like I really enjoy, you know, seeing the smiles behind my product, the reviews behind my the reviews, you know, not buying reviews, or buying followers or bla bla bla. So that really is what measures the what your company is worth, and not in a monetary way, like not enough an end financial way. If not, I what I'm saying is the appreciation and the loyalty and the real client, you know,


Jade  1:18:56 

yeah. And let me as we wrap up this conversation, let me ask you sort of one final thing here because I think it will, I think is important when telling me the story of Darly and her donor. So how did you why did you create this product? What was the pain point for you?


Darly  1:19:13 

It was my own personal experience. I always wanted to have something of my own, but I didn't know what exactly. And I've been working and leaving around the world. And while I was living in France I are This was back in Brazil when I first started working out but I was so young and when you're young you just want to have fun you know you don't stick to a healthy lifestyle. You're just out drinking, partying, all the good stuff. But I did want it I did want to start working out so that's when I met my first fitness coach. And I just like I wasn't taught anything about like how my body was going to feel. And by these I mean like The hunger that you have after working out you just like become Godzilla, you want to eat everything. So if there's no balance on on that, then yeah, you are gonna have some, some interesting results, which I did. So I was gaining a lot of weight, not seeing any results. I was so confused. And then I moved on to a second fitness coach, right. He's now very famous here in the US. His name is Duncan Lucas. I don't know if you, you've heard of him. But at that time, he he didn't have a lot of followers. And I happen to train with him in I saw a lot of results that I loved. But the the part that I wasn't like, super happy about was the diet like I was seeing a lot of results now because I now had a diet in a routine gym routine. But I wasn't eating any sugar at all. So obviously I was craving specially when you know my menstrual cycle would come. I want it chocolate, I want it sweets, and I love cereal, too. That's one of my my treats almost every day. So I was like, What do I do? I love my buddy now but I don't feel happy. So I started, you know, going online seeing all these like healthy stuff that I could order and I would even like have it shipped from the US to France, just to have like a good, you know, guilt free snack. And this is all in my head. I'm creating this stories in my head, right? Because I don't know. Eventually, I found in Canada, a donut brand, protein donut brand, where I picked up the idea from and I wanted them to ship their doughnuts to as I have a lot of clients that want the same thing. Like please cheap some to France, and they're like, that's obviously impossible. You know, like, they were also small business owners. So I was so sad. And I knew that that didn't exist in Mexico. So I was like, what if I started that? And then I My mind was like, Oh, what about a protein ice cream? What about a protein cereal? Because I love cereal? So all these things for me, you know, like, what would Darly be a number one client too. And oh my god, the time that it took me to come up with a formula because yeah, there's a lot of chefs, bakers, you know, nutritionists that are out there that can just come up with a formula in their kitchen, but it's not affordable to sell to clients, you know, that is that low cost where you can profit out of. So it was a whole year of trials. And my and I was I had a full time job. I was studying two masters degrees together at the same time. And being in the lab with a fluid engineer trying over and over and over new ingredients, new quantities new. And I just at the end, I knew what I wanted, that was a donut with a certain amount of protein. And even like, the engineer was like, You're crazy. Like you're asking almost for the impossible. I'm like, No, I'm not this just get frying one more time. So yeah, those were really very hard times. But I learned so much. And I've learned so much throughout all these three years that I've been owning my own business. And the formula has just been improving every time like now I know what my client keeps you know, looking for and now we have more protein now we have topping now we have like sugar free glazing. So in all of this is hard data like this is not me, you know, assuming stuff you get in feedback. Exactly. And I would never I could never sell something that I could not eat myself, you know.

Jade  1:24:28 

yeah. So let's go. So just to wrap this up final thoughts on this to me, here's, here's where this all comes together from a business point of view from my perspective. So to me, the marketing has to be it's about Darly it's named r&d. So your story has to be in there and the way I always see this as I go, the mechanisms for the marketing has to be a powerful hook. Right? And that hook is a hook that you know you and I will talk about, you know, but it's something that it has to be so catchy and so powerful that it makes people stand up. And so a hook for everyone listening is just, you think x, it's really why some kind of powerful turn on its head. So that's the first thing I think that sort of needs to happen. The next thing after a hook is an emotional anchor or story, which normally will then be your story. So I can see this idea of, you know, this young fitness person who's getting results and then doesn't get results because they're over eating because they love sweets. And they're like, why can't I just have what they want, and they're in the kitchen for years trying to figure it out. That's not it. That's not it. That's not I mean, people are getting emotionally attached to this idea that I came up with the perfect solution, so you don't have to write. So that's the hook, the emotions slash story. And then there's got to be sort of the framework there. That is sort of the secret sauce, right? It has this particular macro, it stops cravings, because of this, maybe it's like the whey protein lowers cortisol, the fiber and the protein, you know, just GLP and gi P, there's, there's a story there. That basically means the major way this works is it suppresses hunger, and here's how right so then people go, Oh, okay, so now they've got, you know, this hook that gets their attention, this emotional story, that they're just like, I dig this person, and I can relate to their story. And I need the solution that they solved for, oh my god, there's some cool science here, there's a little bit of framework around it. And then there's sort of the, you know, sort of the call to action of like, okay, now, here's how you get it, in your case, it'd be like, you can order this, you know, bag of protein powder, and I'll give you, you know, certain amount of recipes to go along with that, or whatever. And that's the way it begins. Right. So you basically formulate that marketing plan, then in the meantime, you're out on the street and Nashville, Nashville, Charlotte, or whatever it is, in times that you have delivering the actual product, gathering feedback, seeing if you know, a good synchronistic connection comes in, where you end up in a local coffee shop, or you end up with a local business owner, who you are piggyback being off of, to develop content, and all of this kind of stuff, while you, you know, are essentially building, you know, the business. And then once you get enough traction, you may actually find Oh, the the protein powder, you know, that is being used to actually for home people to make the donuts is really taking off, and I'm gonna go in that direction. And rather than open up a shop, now I'm going to do my protein ice cream, or I'm going to do you know, this other piece, or maybe I open up a shop as well. And the reason that it works better that way, in my mind is because you begin figuring out what works, and you also start going, maybe I don't want to run a shop, you know, maybe that's too much. Maybe what I want to do is I want to, you know, start other products that I can ship. But to me this is the way that you know, you begin, you know, sort of the process. And there's obviously a lot of different tools and techniques around that. But that's how where I would start to marketing.



Darly  1:28:13 

Yeah, I think there's a lot of small business owners and I include myself that think that they know what the business model is going to be like, until you see your own business speaking for its own, and then you need to be you know, listening to that


Jade  1:28:31 

100% I would say that every single business I've ever started, you know, I just gave I've given up on doing a business plan. Now it's more like structured flexibility. I'm like, I think is going to look like this. Yeah, but I'm just going to fire and aim later. And I think what most people do is they aim and there's a I forget who said it, but there's the famous saying that says most people think it's ready, aim fire in business is really fire. aim, aim, aim, aim, aim ready, you know. So it's you build it. As they come you don't build it so that they come. And I think that's part of where where you're at with Darlene Jonas and where I'm at with sort of next level human coffee, we have the idea. You've already had a big success here. Right? So you've already got this successful in Mexico. Now it's just coming and pivoting and saying how do I need to market it differently in the United States, but anything else you want to share? We should go through?


Darly  1:29:28 

I don't think so. This was a very interesting conversation. And I'm so happy that I got to talk to you about


Jade  1:29:34 

Of course. You're absolutely you're brilliant. I mean this is like to me, let's just not forget what it takes. Like it's huge Darly you notice it is huge to build a business like you've built in any country. Right? And now you're doing it and you know, the second country I've only ever done you know, and I don't know how many languages do you speak so what Brazil Portuguese obviously then you speak Portuguese?


Darly  1:29:57 

I speak Spanish that's my first language. English French, some Portuguese and some Italian



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